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Thread: Startup Rattle

  1. #1
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    Startup Rattle

    Hi, I've been trying to capture this elusive rattle for some time now and eventually have managed to record it at its worst. This high pitch level of rattle occurs very infrequently but about every other day at a lower pitch. Anyone out there who can identify this? I know these cars have timing chain issues, mine was replaced 2 yrs ago today and this has been occurring for the past 18 months on and off. I left it overnight with the guys who fitted the chain a couple of weeks ago for a cold start test but the rattle didn't happen in front of them and they said the timing seemed ok. Is there any way to determine whether the chain has stretched without stripping the whole thing out? I've created a link to my dropbox as its the only way i could figure out how to attach it. Hope you guys can shed some light on this as the guarantee for the chain replacement has run out, so no soft landing if the chain fails


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rdq77g922...ttle1.m4a?dl=0
    59 plate Touran 1.4 TSI, Engine code: CAVC

  2. #2
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    That sounds like the timing chain adjuster having to push out a LONG way to take up the slack.
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

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  4. #3
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    Thanks for the reply crasher but why doesn't it do it all the time?
    59 plate Touran 1.4 TSI, Engine code: CAVC

  5. #4
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    I see (hear) this a lot. We did a service on a 1.6 FSI Golf 5 today that we did the chains on two years ago and even after an oil change the slight rattle disappeared within 2 or 3 seconds just at idle, we NEVER rev an engine with timing chains when it has had an oil change. I suspect that when fully extended, the tensioner piston can tilt and lock so keeping it quiet but then drop back another time, I think you should have a precautionary strip down done, it is too much of a gamble.

    New tensioner (3 cylinder though)



    This is the design the EA888 engine has with a ratchet that prevents it dropping back a FAR FAR superior idea



    This is the FULL kit we fit by FAI who sell some excellent products

    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

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  7. #5
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    Would this type of tensioner be available for my engine?
    59 plate Touran 1.4 TSI, Engine code: CAVC

  8. #6
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    Back again! I got the tensioner replaced under warranty, can't fault the guys at Volksmaster Bury, they changed it on hearing the audio clip with about a week left on the warranty. On removing the old one they did say the spring was quite 'squishy' with a lot of play in it. It wasn't the ratchet type and neither was the replacement but its a oem part. Its now been a couple of weeks and it made the same horrible rattle as the audio clip twice in the space of a couple of hours. Its really winding me up now as I want to get rid of it but can't sell it on in this state. Any ideas on what it could be, it doesn't happen all the time. Am I right in saying oil pressure helps this tensioner keep tension, if so could the oil pump be faulty? I keep thinking the worst and am expecting the engine to be smashed to bits overtime I drive it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    59 plate Touran 1.4 TSI, Engine code: CAVC

  9. #7
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    They should have fitted a new chain and guides, it would have only cost another 30 in bits, now it will all have to be stripped down again which is not a 5 minute job!
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
    They should have fitted a new chain and guides, it would have only cost another 30 in bits, now it will all have to be stripped down again which is not a 5 minute job!
    It was initially to be an exploratory strip down, with a tensioner on standby. I did request them to ring me and I said I'd rather have the full job done if its looking like the tensioner with me paying for the chain and guides etc. however when I rung them in the afternoon they had it back together checking for leaks. They did say that the chain looked fine, but I was bit gutted about the missed opportunity. Could the fact that these items weren't replaced be a factor?
    59 plate Touran 1.4 TSI, Engine code: CAVC

  11. #9
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    Just wondering if you ever resolved this? I have exactly the same car, MK5 1.6 FSI, and exactly the same issue! Thanks for recording the sound of it. I worry the engine will shred itself on a daily basis.

  12. #10
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    My 2012 1.2 Beetle is going to the dealers tomorrow night, as it is booked in for Thursday, that way they should hear it sounding like a diesel on start up, it has to sit idle for 12 hours or so, so that lets the oil pressure drop and the plunger sets back.
    Have recorded the symptoms on my tablet to let them see it, will let you know how I get on, if they are gonna replace the tensioner plunger am gonna tell them to do the lot and I will pay for the other parts.

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