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Thread: VR6 with hesitation in acceleration....... then check engine light......

  1. #31
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    Thanks Keith. I know what all the codes mean. I have software to do a full Vag Com scan. I also have a full VW workshop manual. Can you not see that the fault codes are contradictory now? Do you have any inkling of what the measuring block values are showing?
    2009 Passat 4Motion 3.2 FSI

  2. #32
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    It is a gamble but I do still think injectors.
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

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  4. #33
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    What would confirm it for you Crasher? I've got a new Bosch MAF on the way, I'm toying with the idea of new throttle sensor and throttle body before I start looking at the injectors. Is there a feature on the Vag Com where I could interrogate the injectors better?

    Cheers
    2009 Passat 4Motion 3.2 FSI

  5. #34
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    It is very difficult to gauge their condition without having them on a flow rig which can be expensive in itself and this design does not respond to cleaning as the problem is mechanical wear so it often comes down to a gut instinct decision. The Air Mass Meter and throttle body on modern VAG engines are very very reliable, the FSI injectors are not. A throttle body (608.96) or AMM (143.74) error would affect all cylinders equally and after some terrible experiences I will only fit genuine VAG dealer supplied AMM, not Bosch because the market is rife with Chinese forgeries.
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

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  7. #35
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    Thanks for that. The car has only done 80,000km, so I'd be hoping mechanical wear wasn't an issue. Fuel tends to be pretty clean in Japan and here and I'm guessing that the filter system would take out most impurities. Because of the big delay in acceleration, I'm going with the MAF first. If it was just 1 injector, I'd have a misfire on one pot which I wouldn't really feel. I think that random O2 error codes are because of momentary mixture problems... I mean why show too lean and then too rich?
    Cheers
    2009 Passat 4Motion 3.2 FSI

  8. #36
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    New MAF arrived. Instantly better.... smoother cold tickover and slower also. Took for a 100 km spin and it seems to be much smoother with more mid range power.
    No check engine lights yet so fingers crossed, that was it.
    Thanks Keith & Crasher for your help.

    Regards
    2009 Passat 4Motion 3.2 FSI

  9. #37
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    From a private message on 05-02-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny P
    Well engine check light came on again........ Bank 2 sensor 2 stuck lean
    However, the live data was much easier to read. Voltage from this sensor dropped down to 0.1 whilst driving and didn't really move. The Bank 1 sensor 2 voltage was varying between 0.5 and 0.9.

    So, looks like we had 2 faults.

    Do you have the part number for this sensor? I can't distinguish between the two.
    That says it is running lean AFTER the second cat on bank 2 at sensor B2 S2, not necessarily that the sensor is faulty and it has four cats, two for each bank one close coupled, the other after the flexi section with the second lambda sensor after this, if it was a mixture problem I would expect to see an error for the pre cat sensor B2 S1. With this engine, it is very common for the flexible coupling after the first cat to crack and this allows in oxygen which sends the sensor crazy.

    Steve
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

  10. #38
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    Cheers Steve
    Here is the exhaust assembly. I'm not sure what you mean about the 2nd cats?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Passat Exhaust.PNG 
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    Do you think the down pipe from the manifold could be cracked?

    Thanks
    2009 Passat 4Motion 3.2 FSI

  11. #39
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    Stupid parts system shows your front pipe with two cats per side, that is the non FSI version, anyway you have the flexi AKA "decoupling element", these are fragile and prone to cracking. When buying a front pipe, it comes with thick plastic jackets around the elements and a strict warning in the book to not allow the elements to be bent at an angle greater than 20 degrees. This causes tiny inaudible splits which allow oxygen in, this flows over the post cat lambda sensor and sends it whappy. A few years ago I did a front pipe on an A3 3.2 that was reporting poor cat efficiency, we have had to do a number of them on the BUB engine. The new one was 1500 and it arrived with one jacket and the other pipe blowing in the wind (I could think of more Nefarious analogies) so I sent it back with a flea in their ear. Another arrived properly supported and was duly fitted. About a week later he came back in a bit disgruntled and said his engine light was on again, we gave our usual explanation that it can come on for dozens of different reasons and it may not be the same fault code, it wasn't as it said one of the lambda sensors was reading lean so we ASSUMED this was the sensor and replaced it. A week later, back he came and this time with the same fault code and as the other bank was fine and this code was not there before we knew something was wrong that WE had introduced. We did a smoke test up the tailpipe confidently expecting a cracked manifold or even damaged flexi but instead I saw a tiny wisp of smoke coming from a weld, the weld had been terminated a fraction too soon when being made and had left a minute pin hole. I told the genuine parts supplier (called TPS in the UK, they cover all VAG brands) and they said "as it is fitted you have to go to Audi", which we did. They said they could not find the problem so I told them to smoke test it but the main dealer did not have the gear.... I had to go down there and point out the hole and and eventually they could replicate the problem. They wanted ME to weld up the hole as they don't have welding equipment and I told them in no uncertain terms to talk to TPS and replace the pipe, which they did AFTER I rang Audi customer services and raised the roof... I understand why the dealers here don't like covering the TPS warranty as they did not sell the part but that is the system imposed by VAG UK and there is nothing we can do about it.
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

  12. #40
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    The picture I shared is an exact replica of what is under the bonnet and body of my car. Could you be getting confused with the 90 degree V6 FSI? Earlier in the thread you mentioned an all alloy engine, I think that is the 90 degree V6. My engine specs are as follows;-
    3.2 VR6 24v FSI (EA390)[edit]

    identificationparts code prefix: 03H, ID code: AXZengine displacement & engine configuration3,168 cubic centimetres (193.3 cu in) 10.6 VR6 engine; bore: 86.0 millimetres (3.39 in) x stroke: 90.9mm, stroke ratio: 0.95:1 - undersquare/long-stroke, 531.5 cc per cylinder, compression ratio: 12:1[citation needed]cylinder block & crankcasegrey cast iron; seven main bearings; die-forged steel crankshaftcylinder head & valvetraincast aluminium alloy; four unequal-length valves per cylinder, 24 valves total, low-friction roller finger cam followers with automatic hydraulic valve clearance compensation, simplex roller chain-driven double overhead camshaft (DOHC - one camshaft for all exhaust valves, and one for all intake valves), continuous timing adjustment variable valve timing (52 degrees on the inlet, 22 degrees on the exhaust)aspirationhot-film air mass meter, electronic drive by wire throttle valve, one-piece cast aluminium alloy intake manifold, two cast iron exhaust manifoldsfuel systemFuel Stratified Injection (FSI) high-pressure direct injection with two common railsignition systemmapped direct ignition with six individual ignition coilsDIN-rated motive power & torque output184 kilowatts (250 PS; 247 bhp)applicationVW Passat B6 3.2 FSI (09/05->)
    2009 Passat 4Motion 3.2 FSI

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