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Thread: Help with Engine Problem please

  1. #1
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    Help with Engine Problem please

    Hi all, just signed up here, hoping I can get a steer on what's going on with my Golf. It's a 2003 Golf Match Mk4 1.6 with the 16V BCB engine.

    I bought this about 6 months ago as a cheap runaround whilst we were between cars. Turns out we still need it and have still got it. It passed the MOT with flying colours about 2 months ago.

    When I bought it, it was cheap and the seller, who was a decent guy, told me up front that the engine management light occasionally came on but made no difference to the driving. He was 100% correct, it does and it doesn't! Also get the EPC light some of the time. I can clear these with a basic OBD reader. So, because it wasn't causing us any hassle, I did nothing about it.

    A few days ago my wife was driving it, and suddenly lost all power. The engine was idling but very rough. When turned off and back on again, the car started and drove fine. It's done this three times in as many days but has recovered itself each time.

    The first time it did it, she was away from home and called the AA. They checked and cleaned the throttle body but said they couldn't find anything else wrong. Apparently he did spend some time checking it over. They did also read the codes and I'll add those to this post when I can get them from her, the AA emailed them to her.

    Using my basic code reader, I checked it after this and I get P0106 (which has been there since I bought the car, this is related to the EML coming on I believe, and can be cleared) and also P0170, Fuel Trim Malfunction. Reading about this code generically, it can be caused by several things but is apparently most likely to be the MAF sensor. However.....I don't think this engine has one? The airbox is contained within the big cover over the top of the engine and there are no electrical connections going to that, so I'm a bit stumped.

    Can anyone help me with what I need to do to resolve this? Is there a MAF sensor somehow concealed? The throttle body itself is as clean as a whistle. (By the way I was surprised to discover that it's drive-by-wire? No accelerator cable?).

    I'm happy with changing parts, but I need to know what to change and where to find it please.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    No MAF, but a MAP (manifold pressure) sensor instead (which is what the P0106 is pointing at); this will be attached to the inlet manifold somewhere. This sensor also has a temperature sensor inside it, for intake air temperature, and this can sometimes be what's really giving the unexpected reading.

    The combined engine cover/airbox arrangement often has a warm air feed from the exhaust manifold heatshroud, and a blend flap inside the airbox which is supposed to be on a thermostat to combine pre-warmed and cold incoming air to a 'just right' kind of temperature. My experience of these set-ups is that the thermostat fails, and when it does so you end up with just pre-warmed air instead of that nice blend. Check this out while waiting for the codes that were read by the AA man. Pushing on the back end of the thermostat should move the flap. If heating the same part with e.g. a hair dryer (carefully) doesn't make the flap move, then the thermostat is dead. Can be 'fixed' by making sure that the blend flap stays in the cold air only position, by any available means.
    I don't think the wax thermostat is available as a spare part.

    I doubt that this air temperature thing is the only problem with the system (if it even is failed), but it's probably worth sorting out anyway if broken.
    Last edited by Pete1; 04-04-19 at 09:47.
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  4. #3
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    Thanks for this Pete. I'll have a look at that. I'm going to try and see tomorrow whether I can get a local VW specialist to do a full code-read for me and see whether that throws anything else up that I could look at.

    Otherwise I guess I'm into swapping out the throttle body, MAP sensor and maybe the EGR in order to fix. I don't mind doing all of those but would prefer to be sure that I'm targeting the right component.

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    Check the brake servo vac hose for splits at the junctions of the hard plastic pipe sections, they seem to be reliably cracked/split whenever carefully checked, usually on the underside where you can't see.
    Can give all sorts of problems.
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  6. #5
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    First posts normally go in introductions else you could get a free fix and we never see you again!!!

    VAG Error Code: 16554/000368
    EOBD II Error Code: P0170

    Fault Location:
    Fuel Trim, Bank 1 - Malfunction

    Possible Cause:
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.
    Excessive Fuel Consumption.

    Intake air leaks.
    Secondary Air Injection (SAI) system.
    Fuel pressure/pump.
    Incorrect fuel pressure.
    Lack of fuel.
    Injector(s).
    Ignition misfiring.
    Activated Charcoal Filter (Evaporative Emission (EVAP)) Control Valve 1 (N80).
    Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) (G39).
    Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor (G70).
    Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (G62).
    Incorrect Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) hose connection.

    Tech Notes:
    Dirty air filter, air filter housing or Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, or a Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor are common causes for the P0170 code.

    When is the code detected?:
    Fuel injection system does not operate properly or the amount of mixture ratio compensation is not correct.

    Description:
    With the Air/Fuel Mixture Ratio Self-Learning Control, the actual mixture ratio can be brought closely to the theoretical mixture ratio based on the mixture ratio feedback signal from the heated oxygen sensors 1. The Engine Control Module (ECM) calculates the necessary compensation to correct the offset between the actual and the theoretical ratios.

    In case the amount of the compensation value is extremely large (The actual mixture ratio is too lean.), the Engine Control Module (ECM) judges the condition as the fuel injection system malfunction and light up the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) (2 trip detection logic).

    As taken from my new EOBD II Fault Codes Software
    2010 Golf GTD (170) CBBB, 5 Door, Shadow Blue (P6/D5Q), Transmission Code: KXZ, Flat Tyre Indicator, Basic Protection Pack + VCDS.


  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keithuk View Post
    First posts normally go in introductions else you could get a free fix and we never see you again!!!
    <br><br>Apologies!<br>
    <br>
    <strong><br></strong>
    Quote Originally Posted by Keithuk View Post
    <strong><br>VAG Error Code:</strong> 16554/000368<br>
    <strong>EOBD II Error Code:</strong> P0170<br>
    <br>
    <strong>Fault Location:</strong><br>
    Fuel Trim, Bank 1 - Malfunction<br>
    <br>
    <strong>Possible Cause:</strong><br>
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.<br>
    Excessive Fuel Consumption.<br>
    <br>
    Intake air leaks.<br>
    Secondary Air Injection (SAI) system.<br>
    Fuel pressure/pump.<br>
    Incorrect fuel pressure.<br>
    Lack of fuel.<br>
    Injector(s).<br>
    Ignition misfiring.<br>
    Activated Charcoal Filter (Evaporative Emission (EVAP)) Control Valve 1 (N80).<br>
    Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) (G39).<br>
    Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor (G70).<br>
    Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (G62).<br>
    Incorrect Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) hose connection.<br>
    <br>
    <strong>Tech Notes:</strong><br>
    Dirty air filter, air filter housing or Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, or a Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor are common causes for the P0170 code.<br>
    <br>
    <strong>When is the code detected?:</strong><br>
    Fuel injection system does not operate properly or the amount of mixture ratio compensation is not correct.<br>
    <br>
    <strong>Description:</strong><br>
    With the Air/Fuel Mixture Ratio Self-Learning Control, the actual mixture ratio can be brought closely to the theoretical mixture ratio based on the mixture ratio feedback signal from the heated oxygen sensors 1. The Engine Control Module (ECM) calculates the necessary compensation to correct the offset between the actual and the theoretical ratios.<br>
    <br>
    In case the amount of the compensation value is extremely large (The actual mixture ratio is too lean.), the Engine Control Module (ECM) judges the condition as the fuel injection system malfunction and light up the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) (2 trip detection logic).<br>
    <br>
    As taken from my new <a href="https://www.volkswagenforum.co.uk/f18/eobd-ii-fault-codes-software-5367.html" target="_blank">EOBD II Fault Codes Software</a>
    <br><br>Hmm, that's very useful although it's a long list of possibles.&nbsp; The net effect was that the accelerator pedal was completely (100%) unresponsive and the idle was really rough, running erratically up and down between maybe 1000-2000rpm.&nbsp; I had a similar set of symptoms on a BMW bike recently and that turned out to be the throttle position sensor, but as far as I know there's not a separate one on this Golf?<br><br>I wasn't there when the AA came out but apparently he checked it over thoroughly; you would hope that he would have spotted any physical issues (split hoses etc), although of course that's not guaranteed.&nbsp; Beyond that I guess there is no way of knowing which of the above possible causes is the culprit.<br><br>As mentioned above I have booked it in to a VAG specialist tomorrow for diagnostics.&nbsp; I'm hoping that their diag kit will be able to pinpoint the issue more closely?&nbsp; Or am I wasting money for them to give me the codes I already know and the list of possible above?<br><br><br>
    <br>
    2003 Golf Match 1.6 16V, Petrol BCB

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keithuk View Post
    First posts normally go in introductions else you could get a free fix and we never see you again!!!
    Apologies! I do belong to a fair few forums and although I've yet to provide a positive contribution here, I hope that I have done so elsewhere many times, so there should be a modicum of positive karma in the bank!


    Quote Originally Posted by Keithuk View Post
    VAG Error Code: 16554/000368
    EOBD II Error Code: P0170

    Fault Location:
    Fuel Trim, Bank 1 - Malfunction

    Possible Cause:
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.
    Excessive Fuel Consumption.

    Intake air leaks.
    Secondary Air Injection (SAI) system.
    Fuel pressure/pump.
    Incorrect fuel pressure.
    Lack of fuel.
    Injector(s).
    Ignition misfiring.
    Activated Charcoal Filter (Evaporative Emission (EVAP)) Control Valve 1 (N80).
    Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) (G39).
    Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor (G70).
    Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (G62).
    Incorrect Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) hose connection.

    Tech Notes:
    Dirty air filter, air filter housing or Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, or a Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor are common causes for the P0170 code.

    When is the code detected?:
    Fuel injection system does not operate properly or the amount of mixture ratio compensation is not correct.

    Description:
    With the Air/Fuel Mixture Ratio Self-Learning Control, the actual mixture ratio can be brought closely to the theoretical mixture ratio based on the mixture ratio feedback signal from the heated oxygen sensors 1. The Engine Control Module (ECM) calculates the necessary compensation to correct the offset between the actual and the theoretical ratios.

    In case the amount of the compensation value is extremely large (The actual mixture ratio is too lean.), the Engine Control Module (ECM) judges the condition as the fuel injection system malfunction and light up the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) (2 trip detection logic).

    As taken from my new EOBD II Fault Codes Software
    Hmm, that's very useful although it's a long list of possibles. The net effect was that the accelerator pedal was completely (100%) unresponsive and the idle was really rough, running erratically up and down between maybe 1000-2000rpm. I had a similar set of symptoms on a BMW bike recently and that turned out to be the throttle position sensor, but as far as I know there's not a separate one on this Golf?

    I wasn't there when the AA came out but apparently he checked it over thoroughly; you would hope that he would have spotted any physical issues (split hoses etc), although of course that's not guaranteed. Beyond that I guess there is no way of knowing which of the above possible causes is the culprit.

    As mentioned above I have booked it in to a VAG specialist tomorrow for diagnostics. I'm hoping that their diag kit will be able to pinpoint the issue more closely? Or am I wasting money for them to give me the codes I already know and the list of possible above?
    2003 Golf Match 1.6 16V, Petrol BCB

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