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Thread: Which heater matrix, coolant comparison, advice please

  1. #1
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    Which heater matrix, coolant comparison, advice please

    Hi everyone,

    Following on from my post on an older thread, I need a bit more help.

    I am going ahead and changing the heater matrix on the golf. A few things I need help with:

    1) It appears that there are 2 possible options of matrix, Denso or Valeo and I need this info to be able to order the correct item.

    Is there any easy way to confirm or check the matrix brand without pulling it out? Both footwells are stripped and open.

    I ask the above because, after speaking to TPS and VW dealers near me, there is a backlog for the part for up to 7-10 days. If I have to pull the matrix out itís just extra work and will have to be put back as the car will be needed over the next 7-10 days. If itís the only way, so be it.

    2) This brings me onto the next question, I always try and aim to use genuine parts where I can. However I need to get this fixed ASAP, with the cold weather we currently have, itís difficult for my other half whoís car it is, to use everyday.

    Would you recommend any of the aftermarket brands sold by ECP or another supplier? I believe they only have the Nissen and AVA brands as the Denso and Valeo equivalents respectively. If you have any suggestions of where I can source a matrix or advice or that these are a no go, please let me know.

    3) Lastly, is the quantum purple coolant or ECP triple qx as good as or the same as G13? Is there any benefit of using say the G13 over the quantum stuff as VW use plenty of quantum fluids themselves and I presume itís essentially the same.

    4) One more cheeky question, you recommend I change the expansion tank at the same time? I was leaning more on the change it.

    Appreciate the help!

    Many thanks

  2. #2
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    Almost every one I have seen is Valeo, TPS should be able to tell using your VIN and the PR codes.
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

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    Thanks crasher! Reply greatly appreciated. They used the reg of the car but I will tell them to use the vin and worse come, Iíll tell theem to order the Valeo.

    So I guess your opinion is to stick with OE and donít bother touching any of the other brands?

    How about the coolant. Do you use the quantum stuff or stick with G13?

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    Unfortunately they said the VIN won't help them anymore than the reg as the info is all the same that comes up.

    Crasher, I changed the temperature flap motor/actuator on the right side as it was coming up as open circuit when scanned before which led us to believe this was the issue.

    It was a Denso motor. The new one cleared the fault codes but didn't fix the issue hence the matrix change now.

    If the actuator/motor was Denso, would the heating system not also be Denso I.e the matrix? I ask as there are also Valeo temperature flap actuators/motors available for same age/model of car.

    The part numbers seem to the same for the Denso or Valeo motors so maybe that kills my theory?
    Last edited by Momomo; 26-11-19 at 15:35.

  5. #5
    Administrator Keithuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momomo View Post

    Crasher, I changed the temperature flap motor/actuator on the right side as it was coming up as open circuit when scanned before which led us to believe this was the issue.

    It was a Denso motor. The new one cleared the fault codes but didn't fix the issue hence the matrix change now.
    Error codes scanned with what?

    You need to get your motor scanned (preferably with VAG-COM\VCDS) for any error codes logged in the ecu and post them, that will save a lot of guessing and check systems out.

    https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/ keep this in your favorites/bookmarks for reference. As it will save me checking ETKA, which isn't working with the new 8.2 version
    2010 Golf GTD (170) CBBB, 5 Door, Shadow Blue (P6/D5Q), Transmission Code: KXZ, Flat Tyre Indicator, Basic Protection Pack + VCDS.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keithuk View Post
    Error codes scanned with what?

    You need to get your motor scanned (preferably with VAG-COM\VCDS) for any error codes logged in the ecu and post them, that will save a lot of guessing and check systems out.

    https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/ keep this in your favorites/bookmarks for reference. As it will save me checking ETKA, which isn't working with the new 8.2 version
    Hi Keith,

    Thanks for the link. Had a quick go with the VIN but it doesn't seem to pull up anyhting when I click search button with the VIN entered. I'll have anither go later.

    It was a friends garage. They didn't have VAG-COM/VCDS as far as I'm aware but this software seem to work and bring up details info and options.

    DTC- B108D54 - Right temperature flap positions motor- no basic setting- active/static

    DTC- B10915 - Right temperature door potentiometer/actuator- open circuit/short circuit to B+ - passive/abiogenesis

    We did flap adaptations over and over with no success. New motor cleared the codes.

    However a new one popped up after which said the following:

    DTC- P171900 - Function restriction by engine control module

    We checked the matrix and it felt cold on one side and hot on the other which tallys up with the matrix being the issue as everyone keeps advising me even though I was hoping it wasnít.

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    Administrator Keithuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momomo View Post

    It was a friends garage. They didn't have VAG-COM/VCDS as far as I'm aware but this software seem to work and bring up details info and options.

    DTC- B108D54 - Right temperature flap positions motor- no basic setting- active/static

    DTC- B10915 - Right temperature door potentiometer/actuator- open circuit/short circuit to B+ - passive/abiogenesis

    DTC- P171900 - Function restriction by engine control module
    Those aren't VAG-COM\VCDS error codes there are to many 00.

    VAG Error Code: 9474417/9474418/328964
    EOBD II Error Code: B1091

    Fault Location:
    Motor for Front Air Distribution Flap - Actuator Stuck/Missing Calibration/Basic Setting

    Possible Cause:
    Check mechanical condition of components.

    Possible Solutions:
    Check Mechanical Operation.
    Inspect and free off Actuator.
    Read Measuring Value Blocks (MVB).
    Perform Output Test/Basic Setting.


    VAG Error Code: 037005/328196/9473393/9473394/9473298/0011
    EOBD II Error Code: B108D

    Fault Location:
    Motor for Right Temperature Flap - Actuator Stuck/Short Circuit to Positive/Missing Calibration/Basic Setting

    Possible Cause:
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.

    Fuse(s).
    Wiring/Connector(s).
    Motor for Right Temperature Flap blocked.
    Motor for Right Temperature Flap faulty.

    Possible Solutions:
    Check/Replace Fuse(s).
    Check/Replace all faulty Wiring/Connector(s).
    Check Actuator operation.
    Read Measuring Value Blocks (MVB).
    Check/Replace Motor for Right Temperature Flap.
    Perform Output Test/Calibration & Basic Setting.


    VAG Error Code: 1048835/4765/005913
    EOBD II Error Code: P1719

    Fault Location:
    Functionality Limited due to Engine Control Module (ECM) - Intermittent/Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

    Possible Cause:
    Unknown Symptom, Cause or Solution.

    As taken from my new EOBD II Fault Codes Software
    2010 Golf GTD (170) CBBB, 5 Door, Shadow Blue (P6/D5Q), Transmission Code: KXZ, Flat Tyre Indicator, Basic Protection Pack + VCDS.


  8. #8
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    We buy the Quantum purple in 205 litre barrels.
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

  9. #9
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    Thanks Keith. I guess the motor must have been faulty it seems as once it was replaced the error codes disappeared.

    Thanks Crasher. Iíll happily use the same stuff then!

    Ok, I managed to identify the matrix today. Did some research online and got the 2 part numbers for the Denso and Valeo parts. got images of each part. Then examined the difference in shape/pipes that come out from them. Using this info I was able to get in there on the car and identify the matrix as a Denso one fitted to our Golf! I also managed to find the part number printed on it and got a picture so no doubts.

    I hope this one isnít on back order. Iíll get this ordered tomorrow.

    Crasher, one more bit of advice please. Since changing the flap motor, my wife who uses the car everyday and does a reasonable distance (30+ miles each way) says the right side vents have started to blow luke warm air now and the other two left vents are even hotter than before on hi heat setting. Before the left side was ice cold. Still, they are considerably cooler and no where near hot as the left side but they are luke warm.

    Do you think fitting the new motor, clearing codes and doing fresh adaptations has caused something to work again somewhere or is it simply a case of the blockage/build up in the matrix possibly by chance has dislodged or something of that nature, allowing a bit more heat out and giving this outcome.

    Should I stick with changing it? Or look at something else?

    This issue is really messing with me.

  10. #10
    Administrator Crasher's Avatar
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    Having cooler air from the right is a common Golf 7 problem due to the design of the right face ducting, we have found you have to remove the facia and insulate the duct.
    2003 Skoda Octavia VRS Estate. APR 98RON remap, APR R1 diverter valve, Jetex exhaust, K&N panel filter, 7.5x18 Alutec Monstr wheels with 225/40 18 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres.
    2006 Polo GTI 1.8T, APR 95RON remap
    1988 Golf 2 GTI 16 valve, 2.2 with Weber Alpha injection
    1983 Golf 1 GTI 8 valve, 2 litre with Eurospec racing 42/36 head
    1972 1302LS auto 1641cc conversion

    Vile Invention

    Dark was that day when Diesel conceived his grim engine that begot you, vile invention, more vicious, more criminal than the camera even, metallic monstrosity, bale and bane of our culture, chief woe of our Commonweal. How dare the Law prohibit hashish and heroin yet license your use, who inflate all weak inferior egos? Their addicts only do harm to their own lives: you poison the lungs of the innocent, your din dithers the peaceful, and on choked roads hundreds must daily die by chance-medley. Nimble technicians, surely you should hang your heads in shame. Your wit works mighty wonders, has landed men on the Moon, replaced brains by computers, and can smithy a "smart" bomb. It is a crying scandal that you cannot take the time or be bothered to build us, what sanity knows we need, an odorless and noiseless staid little electric brougham.

    W.H. Auden (1907-1973), A Curse:

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