Fuses upside-down inside out.

goe555

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Jan 24, 2015
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81
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Northants
Hi again.
My new found occupation (mending daughters 2003, 2ltr tin top) is becoming an electric dream (nightmare). Whist sorting out gremlins with the central locking system I thought I'd better have an investipoke around the fuses and relays.
I popped off the lid on the right hand end of the dash. Somebody had been in there before of course.
Burglary, criminal damage everywhere. Smashed plastic frame missing screws, and the fuse box hanging freely in space upside down. The box shape looks backwards compared to the shape of the dash end.!!!! ???
The fusecard bears no resemblance as it looks like its for left hand drive, so does the box. I can't fathom how it should fit. Perhaps there was an adaptor of some sort for right hand drive cars which has been smashed out.
Even all the fuses are upside down. Maybe if I stood on my head and used a mirror it might work out.
Surely this confusion would not have come from the factory would it???
I can't see any evidence of the harness being messed with, just a backward fuse arrangement and nowhere for the box to live sensibly.
Never come across this to the same extent on other cars but I guess somebody else has. Helllllllp!

Jeff
 

Crasher

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Yes the fuse layout diagram is for left hand drive where the box is on the other side and you don't even get a right hand drive layout in the genuine workshop information so you have to reverse the layout in your head then use your inbuilt telescopic vision to see the fuse numbers, which are under the fuses (?) and then find out the card layout is generic and bears no relation to reality... welcome to modern(ish) VAG electrics. If you think that is bad consider it this way, which is a late 20th century design; late second decade 21st century systems are insane, even VW dealers can't work with them. A few weeks ago I had a series 2 16 plate Touareg in where the battery was going flat and the multimedia display was going daft. Nottingham VW told the owner it needed a new MMI unit at £5650 (yes you read that correctly) which is above the glovebox and they said they had disconnected to stop the drain and indeed the battery was now not losing charge. The owner is a friend of a friend so we had it in and started digging into it and found the MMI was not disconnected at all but we followed their prognosis by trying a used unit instead, no difference. I dug a little deeper and found there was no power. I looked at the wiring diagram, identified the fuse (called SC51) and checked it doing the usual practice of flipping the left box to the right and vice versa as you have to (these have FOUR fuse boxes) and the fuse was OK. Then I realised that instead of sticking to the usual VW protocol of flipping the box designations for right and left hand drive, they hadn’t on this one and I was checking the wrong fuse which is what VW must have done as it was blown and a new one blew immediately. Using the diagram I disconnected the three components on this circuit and found it was the radio receiver unit in the boot, he bought one used for a £100 and that cured it. I said to the customer "what would Nottingham VW have said to you if they had fitted the £5650 MMI unit and found it did not work?" A new radio box was £1800... Just for the receiver box!
 

goe555

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
81
Location
Northants
Yes the fuse layout diagram is for left hand drive where the box is on the other side and you don't even get a right hand drive layout in the genuine workshop information so you have to reverse the layout in your head then use your inbuilt telescopic vision to see the fuse numbers, which are under the fuses (?) and then find out the card layout is generic and bears no relation to reality... welcome to modern(ish) VAG electrics. If you think that is bad consider it this way, which is a late 20th century design; late second decade 21st century systems are insane, even VW dealers can't work with them. A few weeks ago I had a series 2 16 plate Touareg in where the battery was going flat and the multimedia display was going daft. Nottingham VW told the owner it needed a new MMI unit at £5650 (yes you read that correctly) which is above the glovebox and they said they had disconnected to stop the drain and indeed the battery was now not losing charge. The owner is a friend of a friend so we had it in and started digging into it and found the MMI was not disconnected at all but we followed their prognosis by trying a used unit instead, no difference. I dug a little deeper and found there was no power. I looked at the wiring diagram, identified the fuse (called SC51) and checked it doing the usual practice of flipping the left box to the right and vice versa as you have to (these have FOUR fuse boxes) and the fuse was OK. Then I realised that instead of sticking to the usual VW protocol of flipping the box designations for right and left hand drive, they hadn’t on this one and I was checking the wrong fuse which is what VW must have done as it was blown and a new one blew immediately. Using the diagram I disconnected the three components on this circuit and found it was the radio receiver unit in the boot, he bought one used for a £100 and that cured it. I said to the customer "what would Nottingham VW have said to you if they had fitted the £5650 MMI unit and found it did not work?" A new radio box was £1800... Just for the receiver box!
Crasher,
Thanks for the heads up or down, or inside out info. Love your musings and experiences.
I'm sure VW Nottingham would have tried to wangle the £5650 out of your customer somehow, and told him it was his fault, like they did, and failed, with me for saturated carpets in my Golf SV., while it was still under warranty.
I'm having to work outside on this Bl....y Beetle. The garage isn't wide enough with the doors open and its freezing out here.
I'm Still trying to find out why the drivers side central locking switch is dead.
I took it out today and poked around with a meter. I really got confused when I realised the useless Haynes manual and Elsawin diagrams show different wire colours. I noticed the door harness clips have been cut and retied. Somebody's been in there before. Wrong harness?? I really don't know.
Poking around in the plug which has only 4 wires, I did establish that that the brown wire is going to a good earth . I got voltage on a couple of other wires but not full 12v more like 9v. I did wonder if that's because they are from the control unit in the window motor (allegedly), and the full 12v would only appear via a relay feeding the lock motor. Im just guessing of course.
Turning to the switch itself, I ohmed it out and my findings were unexpected.
With the switch in the central "off" position, I got a full circuit through 2 separate pairs of contacts. Only 4 pins are wired and in use relative to the plug. Perhaps that continuity I found has something to do with the internal bulb and resistor???
Anyhow, whatever combination of pins I tested, no additional circuit could be made by operating the lock/unlock positions. Am I looking at a bad switch here?
Whilst pondering I heard a faint buzz. I ignored it. About 10 minutes later I heard it again. I sounded suspiciously like the tank fuel pump. It definitely wasn't the boot lock. Am I going bonkers??
That made me think of that S contact fault as shown on the scans I sent you.
I do wonder as my daughter took it upon herself to refit a proper OE radio. It doesn't switch off when the ignition key is removed.
I can fit a new switch, and if its burnt up, splice in a new harness with a new plug.
Please tell me I can change the ignition switch without taking off the steering wheel and top steering column cover. It looks like it can be done... if there is a way I'm sure you will know it.

Thanks

Jeff.
 

Crasher

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The central convivence unit pulses the fuel pump when the divers door is open to improve starting... it catches us out every now and again when we have the fuel system open and we open the door. Without VCDS you are going to struggle to find this fault.
 

goe555

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
81
Location
Northants
The central convivence unit pulses the fuel pump when the divers door is open to improve starting... it catches us out every now and again when we have the fuel system open and we open the door. Without VCDS you are going to struggle to find this fault.
Good Morning Crasher thanks for the reassurance. Phew!
I do have VCDS as per the scans I sent in a previous post.
After clearing old faults Rescan now only shows intermittent S contact fault. But pretty much everything else works OK.. . Sort of !!
After much reading I think it best to go back to basics. There has been a lot of burglary and butchery inside the door trims and I've no idea if or what has been swapped for good, bad or incorrect parts.
Could you please tell ,or say where I might obtain the correct part numbers for what SHOULD be in there for:
1: window motors/ control modules
2: Door locks
3:Door wiring harnesses.

The VIN is: 9CZ3M 621164

I can't really afford to just rip it all out and replace the lot but I might have to at this rate.
I hate with a passion incompetence having spent a lot of my working life either in the early years fixing buses or later working in the network for the "50 volt cowboys" BT. So I'm not usually bothered by multiple wiring looms etc. Knowing what SHOULD be there is a good place to go in my little head if you see what I mean.

Many thanks so far,

Jeff.
 

Crasher

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Messages
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I would fit a new ignition switch first, unless the convenience unit knows what the position the ignition switch is in, it cannot respond as programmed.
 

goe555

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
81
Location
Northants
Good Morning Crasher thanks for the reassurance. Phew!
I do have VCDS as per the scans I sent in a previous post.
After clearing old faults Rescan now only shows intermittent S contact fault. But pretty much everything else works OK.. . Sort of !!
After much reading I think it best to go back to basics. There has been a lot of burglary and butchery inside the door trims and I've no idea if or what has been swapped for good, bad or incorrect parts.
Could you please tell ,or say where I might obtain the correct part numbers for what SHOULD be in there for:
1: window motors/ control modules
2: Door locks
3:Door wiring harnesses.

The VIN is: 9CZ3M 621164

I can't really afford to just rip it all out and replace the lot but I might have to at this rate.
I hate with a passion incompetence having spent a lot of my working life either in the early years fixing buses or later working in the network for the "50 volt cowboys" BT. So I'm not usually bothered by multiple wiring looms etc. Knowing what SHOULD be there is a good place to go in my little head if you see what I mean.

Many thanks so far,

Jeff.
Crasher, apologies for pestering you, or anyone else with this issue, I'm sure you have more profitable ways of spending your time, but a little progress has been made.

Since I managed to get everything plugged into the correct sockets, and get windows working, and tidy up the door harnesses, I've managed to get around to running VCDS over the car again.
Although the S contact still shows up, I'm not overly concerned at this stage as most of the convenience systems are functioning well. Windows, interior lights, alarm, boot, fuel cap, lights on chime, drivers door central locking, although the Drivers door switch is still dead. for reasons not yet established.

You can see from the attached latest scan that the passenger door locking module is showing faulty. It does not work.
Would that fault show up from within the lock assembly? or the convenience sub system within the door window motor.? I'm happy to buy a new lock assembly and chance it, or a window motor. I don't really want to chuck money at it unnecessarily .

please see attached scan. Your thoughts and evaluation is always appreciated.

Is there a reliable parts supplier you know of for a correct lock assembly? I don't fancy a Chinese copy that wont work, however, I dare say VW would want a small fortune, and if it doesn't fix the problem that route would be a lot of money wasted.
I cant start the job unless I have the correct parts in hand, as it cannot be done in the garage, and cannot be left. I understand its quite an involves job to strip the door down and change the locking unit.

Thanks for looking Crasher

Jeff
 

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goe555

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
81
Location
Northants
Crasher, apologies for pestering you, or anyone else with this issue, I'm sure you have more profitable ways of spending your time, but a little progress has been made.

Since I managed to get everything plugged into the correct sockets, and get windows working, and tidy up the door harnesses, I've managed to get around to running VCDS over the car again.
Although the S contact still shows up, I'm not overly concerned at this stage as most of the convenience systems are functioning well. Windows, interior lights, alarm, boot, fuel cap, lights on chime, drivers door central locking, although the Drivers door switch is still dead. for reasons not yet established.

You can see from the attached latest scan that the passenger door locking module is showing faulty. It does not work.
Would that fault show up from within the lock assembly? or the convenience sub system within the door window motor.? I'm happy to buy a new lock assembly and chance it, or a window motor. I don't really want to chuck money at it unnecessarily .

please see attached scan. Your thoughts and evaluation is always appreciated.

Is there a reliable parts supplier you know of for a correct lock assembly? I don't fancy a Chinese copy that wont work, however, I dare say VW would want a small fortune, and if it doesn't fix the problem that route would be a lot of money wasted.
I cant start the job unless I have the correct parts in hand, as it cannot be done in the garage, and cannot be left. I understand its quite an involves job to strip the door down and change the locking unit.

Thanks for looking Crasher

Jeff
Yes, a new ignition switch is on the list, Crasher

Jeff
 
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