Losing the will to live with my polo EML/ESP

grantj

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
3
Hello everyone, I have a problem that's literally making my hair fall out. I don't tend to join a forum and automatically ask for help but I've come to the stage where I need some help/advice and this looks to be quite a popular forum. I usually lurk about on audizone.

Firstly I have a 2011 Polo 1.2 petrol and just after the warranty ran out I hit some problems (typical)

I have the engine management light on as well as the traction control light/esp. I have had the car on vagcom many times at the local garage which all seem to suggest an air leak.

Firstly lets go back to last year when it started giving me trouble. EML on with ESP light, it was giving me a p2279 leak in air intake system, ABS fault that says check engine dtc (this is what brings the ESP light on) and i had an o2 sensor fault. I thought to myself the o2 sensor was probably a false reading due to an air leak (if there was one) so i left it and my local mechanic told me he couldnt find an air leak..... he cleared all the faults and within 2 mins of driving both lights came on again.

I purchased an o2 sensor hoping by chance it would be the problem... changed it, still the same.

Ran vagcom again and it said i had a P0068 throttle position correlation fault and again ABS fault saying check engine dtc, i then bought a new throttle body, fitted it, and had throttle body alignment done..... all was good until 5 mins down the road, esp light flashed on. EML followed the next time i started the engine.

I then had a little google about the p0068 code and some were saying it was due to unmetered air near the throttle body so i then stripped down the whole air intake system from air filter to throttle body, put it back together and still exactly the same. Tracing back through the intake system i noticed the purge valve is right next to the throttle body so decided to replace that to be safe. Still the same......... and that brings us to now.

Vagcom this morning is saying i have a p2279 leak in air intake again as well as the ABS check engine DTC

If anyone has had anything similar or can offer any advice it would be great, also i'm from the Heathrow area if anyone can recommend any VAG specialists that may be able to help locally
 
Last edited:

Crasher

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
26,048
Location
Nottingham, England
18711 (P2279) - Leak in Air Intake System

16452 (P0068 ) - MAP/MAF <-> Throttle Position Correlation


What is your cars engine type code?

How did you adapt the throttle body, which data groups did you do and did you re-adapt the EGR valve?
 

grantj

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
3
18711 (P2279) - Leak in Air Intake System

16452 (P0068 ) - MAP/MAF <-> Throttle Position Correlation


What is your cars engine type code?

How did you adapt the throttle body, which data groups did you do and did you re-adapt the EGR valve?

Hi Crasher thanks for the reply.

It's a 1.2 3 cylinder 60bhp CGP I think?

The throttle body was adapted using VCDS at the local garage as for the data groups please forgive me but not sure I understand what you mean as I don't own a copy of VCDS myself I just sit and watch at the garage.
 

Crasher

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
26,048
Location
Nottingham, England
There is CGPA (69PS) and CGPB (60PS). Where did the throttle body come from? A new genuine one is £506 and a VDO about £320. The throttle body has to be adapted to the ECU in Basic Settings, group 060 but it is also advisable to delete the ECU's learnt values in Adaptation 10, 00 and the accepted way is to do that function 3 times. Can you ask them if they at least did Basic Settings 060. Two possible sources of an air leak could be the servo pipe or the EVAP system but I have not seen that on a 6R yet.
 

Keithuk

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
18,938
Location
Stoke on Trent UK
VAG Error Code: 18711/008825
EOBD II Error Code: P2279

Fault Location:
Leak in Air Intake System - Intermittent

Possible Cause:
Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.

Vacuum Leak.
Intake Manifold Runner Position out of Specification.
Faulty Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) System or Heating Element (N79).

Possible Solutions:
Check Intake System for Leaks.
Check Intake Manifold Runner.
Check Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) System and or Heating Element if applicable.

Special Notes:
When found in the North American Region (NAR) 2.0T (BPY) check RVUTB: 01-09-03 or 2018919 for updated Crankcase Breather Valve.
If the breather valve is faulty, full engine vacuum is typically found when removing the oil cap at idle.


VAG Error Code: 16452/000104
EOBD II Error Code: P0068

Fault Location:
Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor (G71)/Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor (G70) - Throttle Position Correlation - Intermittent

Possible Cause:
Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.

Wiring/Connector(s).
Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF) (G70) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor (G71) faulty.
Vacuum leak.
Leaking air duct system.
Dirty throttle body.

Possible Solutions:
Check Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF) (G70) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor (G71).
Clean Throttle Body and performed Throttle Body Alignment (TBA)
Check intake system for leaks and un-metered air.
This includes Intake Manifold Runner(s) and Intake Manifold Runner position sensor(s) when applicable.
Plausibility with fuel system - Load calculation < -22%.
Plausibility with fuel system - Load calculation > 22%.

When is the code detected?:
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) monitors operation rationality check by comparing sensed throttle position to mass air flow readings.

Description:
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) monitors a vehicle operation rationality check by comparing Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) to Mass Air Flow (MAF) readings. If, during a self-test, the comparison of the Throttle Position (TP) Sensor and Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor readings are not consistent with the calibrated load values, the test fails and a diagnostic trouble code is stored in continuous memory.

As taken from my EOBD II Fault Codes Software
 

grantj

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
3
Hi both. Crasher it is a CGPB engine, it has had a new throttle VDO throttle body, when I fitted this, it made no difference at all.

I had all adaption values reset to default and the throttle body was aligned via engine basic settings and it's still the same.
When is the code detected?:
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) monitors operation rationality check by comparing sensed throttle position to mass air flow readings

Keith the engine management light once illuminated (after its faults are cleared) stays permanently lit which tells me there is a consistent air leak somewhere as the set parameters are not matching up.

The ESP light once it flashes on will then stay on and cannot be turned off with the button. It will go off once the key is removed and will flash up again once the engine has been started and then go for a short drive.

Usually once the wheels start to move the ESP will flash up and stay lit.

I have a day off today so can play about with the car. Any ideas guys?
 

Crasher

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
26,048
Location
Nottingham, England
You are down to an inlet manifold leak now (which I have never had) so the best way to check for this is to get a smoke test done, find a garage with a smoke pro or similar. There is also the possibility it is a faulty pressure sensor (especially if it has the earlier one 06B 906 051) and you haven't yet discounted the possibility of it being a compression problem which can cause this code.
 

Polo6r1.2s

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
7
Hi, did this ever get resolved? I have almost identical problem this morning on the same car. Previously never missed a beat, on starting today it was running rough on 2 cylinders I guess, after a minute or so, it seemed to run ok, but the engine the EML & ESP lights are still lit.

Its the 1.2s, 60hp 2010 with just 65k on the clock.

Is there a specialist in Nottingham? I'm in Sheffield, and know that JCT will want £££ just to look, and being 10 years old, its probably not worth it.
 

Polo6r1.2s

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
7
Thank you. Today I read an article https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=105855 that was pretty much identical to my problem, and it seems they are known for this.

I took off the two plastic camshaft covers on the end of the block, and you can see a notch in the cams. they were both in the same position, so I'm hoping and thinking the cam hasn't jumped a tooth, and problem is something else. I then changed the plugs as they are 65k old. The gap was quite large nearly 2mm, the new ones were 0.9mm. However, no change in running, unless the codes need to be reset before it will try and run normally?
 

Crasher

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
26,048
Location
Nottingham, England
You need to pin the crank at zero using the blocking tool or a DTI to confirm dead on TDC

th_Flywheelpeg_zpscdf65a78.jpg


Then TRY and fit the cam locking plates, with the crank set at 0 number one even just using a screwdriver down the plug hoe, often the cams look like this... you can just see the exhaust cam is out of line

In%20phase%20inlet%20cam_zpsfpo0zlnm.jpg


Be aware that this could just be a simple coil pack failure, wide plug gaps damage them as does cranking the engine over with them out of the head and not with an earthed plug and even removing them can cause failure. Without a diagnostic system you will really struggle.
 

Polo6r1.2s

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
7
Thank you for the pictures, i'm not sure what I'm looking at, and can't see that the exhaust cam is out. I will try and do some more investigation today.
Image-1.jpg
Here are the ends of my cams side by side, the left picture is the front cam.

I have also read that the Lambda sensor failure can give the same symptons?

Is the car safe to drive a low speed (Upto 50mph) ? I.e if I were to drive to nottingham for diagnostics and repair, about 30 miles from sheffield on the ordinary roads.

Thank you.
 

Polo6r1.2s

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
7
Hello, I managed to get an OBD2 tool, and the following code P0341 - Camshaft position sensor "A" circuit Range/Performance Bank 1 or single sensor.

A friend has the same car, so I swapped his sensor for mine, reset the code, but it still came back the same fault code.

Wiring looks fine. Could a fuse have blown?

If the cam chain had slipped, would the camshafts not be in different positions?

The fault code says camshaft sensor or single sensor. Is there another sensor?

Thank you
 

Crasher

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
26,048
Location
Nottingham, England
Unless you know the crank is locked at 0 TDC #1 compression, you can make the cams line up. There is no fuse for the two sensors (G28 crank and G40 cam) and what you have done strongly confirms the valve timing needs to be checked with the crank pegged, this has to be done with the G28 crank speed sensor removed and this is almost impossible without removing the inlet manifold.
 

Polo6r1.2s

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
7
Hello Crasher, Many thanks for your advice, I'm handy but no mechanic. I'm guessing that as no other fault codes for the coil packs or other items are present, and that this is a common occurrence on these engines, that it is highly likely that the chain / teeth have jumped?

What is the approximate cost of putting this right? I'm guessing that as you need to get in the engine to reset the chain position, there is no point in going that far and not replacing the chain, tensioners and sprockets at the same time.

Regards
 

Crasher

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
26,048
Location
Nottingham, England
I have one outside we have just done the usual turbo rebuild on, when I started it up this morning it made me shudder. Do you want me to produce an estimate?
 

Crasher

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
26,048
Location
Nottingham, England
The kit I would like to use by Febi which contains all the major parts is on Germany back order. FAI have stock of a lesser kit which does not have the four oil pump drive parts.
 
Top