Polo 6C (2014) 1.4 Diesel. Gearbox/Clutch issue - RESOLVED

moschino_21

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Hi All,

Wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction please.

Had an issue with the car where the wife complained it was stuck in gear.
Had to go and rescue her.

Managed to get it out of gear.
Noticed that there was a 13mm nut on the Gear Selector mechanism on the gearbox, it had come loose.
Tightened it and it seemed to do the trick.

Following that while driving, changing gear was getting more difficult.
With the engine off, I can select all gears without issue, from the gearstick and at the gearbox.

With the engine running it is more difficult.

Tried bleeding the clutch, this was a pain in the backside.
Even though the fluid level was between Min and Max it was drawing in air from the reservoir. Clutch pedal sticks to the floor.
Added more fluid and managed to get pressure back and the pedal works. No idea why the designed the reservoir that way?

When cold it changes gear OK, after a few minutes of driving I notice it is getting more difficult to select gears.

With my foot flat to the floor on the clutch and selecting reverse, it grinds the gears.

The car is booked into the garage on Thursday, just wanted to know if it is a bleeding issue or slave/master cylinder problem?
Hoping that the gearbox is OK!

Thanks in advance.
Jim
 

moschino_21

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Well the garage checked the Master/Slave cylinder and the bleeding of the system and confirmed OK.

They said the clutch needs to be replaced.

Turns out that this is a difficult to get hold part for the 1.4 Diesel.
Over £600 for the kit which includes flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, bearing + drive shaft!
Car has only done 50k miles.

Thought German cars had good quality parts!
 

Crasher

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Technically it isn't German, either Spanish or South African depending on the number of doors and a LOT of the parts fitted are made in China, you see Made In China all over the Polo 6R and 6C.
 

moschino_21

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This is now resolved.

Cost a fortune.

Turns out it was the Dual Mass Flywheel that had disintegrated.

There is a modification kit available (£600) that removed the DMF completely.
Comprises of a Flywheel, Clutch plate, Pressure Plate, Thrust bearing, Drive shafts and bolts.

Engages gears fine now.

Jim
 

VeeDub

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Well the garage checked the Master/Slave cylinder and the bleeding of the system and confirmed OK.

They said the clutch needs to be replaced.

Turns out that this is a difficult to get hold part for the 1.4 Diesel.
Over £600 for the kit which includes flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, bearing + drive shaft!
Car has only done 50k miles.

Thought German cars had good quality parts!
You can’t just say something like a clutch and associated parts are rubbish because the car has only done 50k miles! 99% of the time it depends on how that clutch is used, and everyone uses theirs differently. I’ve never had to change any clutch at less than 75k miles in over 40 years of driving. Maybe you should look closer to home than Germany for the cause of the premature failure.
 

moschino_21

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I too have never had to replace a clutch before.
Normally keep my cars until they have well over 100k miles on the clock, and they drive as if they were still new.
The garage advised that the company they obtained the kit from sells about 3 per week, well above the normal amount for other vehicles.
The clutch plate was hardly worn when the garage removed it, only the DMF was in pieces.
Guess VW don't want an expensive recall for the substandard DMF.
 

RUM4MO

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You can’t just say something like a clutch and associated parts are rubbish because the car has only done 50k miles! 99% of the time it depends on how that clutch is used, and everyone uses theirs differently. I’ve never had to change any clutch at less than 75k miles in over 40 years of driving. Maybe you should look closer to home than Germany for the cause of the premature failure.

In my experience, all Polos since 9N model appeared are mainly made from Skoda parts, from Skoda factories or Skoda suppliers, well that is the way with the drive train and now at least the petrol engines - and that in my experience remains so at least for the 6C Polos.

trans is marginal at best, lots of early 6C cars ended up with the clutch friction material unwinding, ie reverting to the very material that the friction plates were made from which in at least one supplier's case was stuff like string that separated from the bonding material. Gearboxes also seem to start to whine quickly and when the bearings fail, the casing gets trashed so repair costs, as yet are still vey high.

1.2tTSI petrol engines tend to suffer from the HP fuel rail bolts not being correctly torqued and so the most RHS one snaps off and the HP fuel rail sprays lots of petrol out the front on the engine - which is a known Skoda factory issue which as far as I know no VW Group marque based in UK has been willing to admit, identify the production period that this could have happened in and so serial numbers of engines - and come clean and issued a recall.

Does anyone think driving around with HP petrol spraying out the front of a car engine is safe?

My main reason for continuing to buy VW Group products is because I've bought VCDS, so I have grabbed some control of my spend.

VW Group product quality is the same as Ford as far as the UK market is concerned, so don't be in any doubt about that, on mainland Europe this has always been known and accepted, it is just us in UK that consider them to be above thsi. I'm sure VW Group are quite content with their actual position wrt quality in this area of the car market.

Next incoming "horror" could be the quality and/or durability of the Mando brakes that VW Group seem to pick up much cheaper than from TRW ATE etc.
 

SadClouds

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VW Group product quality is the same as Ford as far as the UK market is concerned, so don't be in any doubt about that, on mainland Europe this has always been known and accepted, it is just us in UK that consider them to be above thsi. I'm sure VW Group are quite content with their actual position wrt quality in this area of the car market.

I don't think this is correct. It all depends on many different factors - model, engine type, manufacture date, etc. I'm not saying that VW are the most reliable cars, but there is a good reason why Polo is much cheaper than Golf or Passat. Same goes for other manufacturers, you get what you pay for. Maybe I've been lucky, but my 2015 VW Golf feels and drives as new and never had any major mechanical issues.
 

VeeDub

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I don't think this is correct. It all depends on many different factors - model, engine type, manufacture date, etc. I'm not saying that VW are the most reliable cars, but there is a good reason why Polo is much cheaper than Golf or Passat. Same goes for other manufacturers, you get what you pay for. Maybe I've been lucky, but my 2015 VW Golf feels and drives as new and never had any major mechanical issues.
This is the reason my last 3 VW’s and an Audi have all been the facelift models! It’s more likely the primary model issues have been addressed. Although that seemingly wasn’t the case with the 2.0TFSI A3’s Intake Manifold Runner Flap, which failed at around 70k miles and cost around £900 to replace …but that was the only manufacturer issue I’ve had so far with any of them. VW’s earn their reputation as being expensive because the initial cost of the car is a little higher than most others, but the parts cost of others is usually a lot higher than VW’s parts, so it balances out if you keep a car for longer periods. I’ve had a few Fords and Vauxhalls over the years, and I know they make their profit on parts.
 

RUM4MO

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Any Fords that I have owned, 7 for me and 3 for my wife, have always asked for small cash injections frequently, though I never owned a Focus at which point Ford turned up the price of spares.
I've only ever owned a single Vauxhall as being a Ford man, Vauxhall was normally a no no, but when Ford refused to wake up and offer a 16V engine in an Orion and Orion after the MK2 became like Escort a very undesirable car, I suddenly bumped into a very slightly used Vauxhall Cav GSI 2000 16V 4X4 - that as a very very good car and over its 9 years and 90K miles with me, it only needed a new ARB links, brake pads and a new exhaust - oh and an early, within warranty new Bosch ABS controller.
My introduction to VW Group was when I decided to import a new factory older VW Passat 4Motion from Holland, from owning that car I thought that VW were top quality even although one headlight housing needed replacing at the 2nd MOT, VW dealership workshop spun an adjuster that was seized and split the plastic cog on it - that cost a bit! I repeated that importing trick when we bought a VW Polo 1.4 again from Holland, when that car was 4 years old it needed a new ARB - usual plastic end stops split due to local rusting, that cost a bit much when including re-alignment that left the front tyres subject to be trashed, again VW main dealership mess up, 3 months later it broke a front spring at half height on New Years Day - that was annoying, but nothing quite as annoying as my first experience of working on a 9N VW Polo - anything that could be seized was seized, I had been working on cars for maybe 35 years prior to that - but this was something different a complete nightmare of a job! Shortly after that I worked out that my 2000 VW Passat 4Motion was only a good car because it was a slightly older Audi designed car, this Polo on the other hand, was an extremely bad car because it was a clone of a Skoda designed car, and so had many parts if not same as Fabia, manufactured by CZ Skoda suppliers - and that was all the suspension etc - horrible to work on. Doing the front springs on my older daughter's SEAT Ibiza 1.4 SC was much easier quite a few years later, so it seems like some parts had been evolved into something slightly better, and so hopefully the same for my wife's current 20015 6C Polo. One thing though, I only ever needed to replace the joining sleeves on the 2000 Passat and 2009 Ibiza exhausts, the 2002 Polo escaped needing that after 13 years, it only needed a copy of SS Jubilee clips round the rear box to keep the outer skin in place and safe.
So my spend on that 2002 Polo over its 13 years and 105K miles was quite extreme especially over its first 5 years on life, this 2015 Polo, so far has been easy too live with. My 2011 Audi S4 just does what I expect of it, 10 years on.
 

Crasher

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In my earlier days I seemed to be fitting new exhausts every day due to rust and then around 96 VAG started using a mild grade of stainless steel and that was it, hardly ever did any exhausts again. I only changed the one on my Octavia because I was bored with it. Yes, lots of sleeves (Mrs Crashers 9N GTI needs one soon) and the occasional flex coupling and apart from a spate of 1.6 TDI DPF's weld failures we just don't do exhausts anymore apart from performance systems from SuperSprint and Jetex.
 

RUM4MO

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Ah, you mentioning flexi bits, reminded me that that was another "hate" moment I had for that 2002 Polo 1.4 16V, I think that it was before its second MOT that I spotted that the flexi section was parting from the rigid exhaust behind it, ie it looked more like extremely poor manufacture for that exhaust supplier to the VW factory. Back in early 2006 no one seemed to be selling aftermarket alternatives so I priced up a front section from VW - £350+ if I remember correctly, that was annoying and sent me off to find a better solution, I found a localish exhaust fabricator and he said that he could weld in a new flexi section for £120, so I went for that. On the drive home after getting that repair I noticed that there was at least one bad resonance during the normal engine rev range, and that annoyed me. The next day when I reversed up the driveway the exhaust was tapping off the underside of the car when the engine load was high, that was also more than a bit annoying! So, I up the car up onto ramps and had a proper look at what had been fitted, from first looking and measuring, it appeared that that exhaust designer/fabricator had fitted a repair section that was at least one size bigger in diameter and the actual flexi part was shorter than the original! I managed to get someone on Briskoda to measure the original one on their exhaust - and that confirmed what I suspected. So, I found Senioraftermarket online, they seemed to sell the correct "grade" and correct dimensioned flexi repair section and were willing to sell direct to me. So with this correct sized flexi repair section I contacted my exhaust specialist who stuck to saying that from his extended experience, the bigger diameter and the shorter flexi part makes no difference, but if I paid for the gas he would swop parts for me. While I was there, he did admit that his usual supplier did not have a good selection in his van when he came to supply him with a new flexi section, so just took what was there to get me moving again - when I handed that car in, it was just leaking slightly! Anyway, job done money handed over, car was now as good as new - and remained like that until it was traded in at 13 years in August 2015 - that one either did not have exhaust joining parts, ie one piece exhaust, or they never failed.

As it is normally only the end clamps that rust through, and I think that they are called euro clamps, does anyone supply suitable clamps in that design, I know that old school U clamps would work enough, some of us like to replace like with like. The clever thing I noticed on the late 2009 SEAT Ibiza 1.4 16V 86PS was, the joining point is roughly above the flimsy chassis brace - so the part of the exhaust most likely to fall down and hit the road, ie the rear section, just drops down and rests on that flimsy chassis brace, excellent! When my wife's 1991 Ford Fiesta 1.1 Ghia broke its first one piece exhaust, it folded up and lifted the floor panel in the rear foot well - that needed me to jump up and down inside the car to flatten the floor back down - after tying a length of wood underneath the car to lift the fallen exhaust so that she could drive that car back home!
 

RUM4MO

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As a professional repairer I can see that is the best approach, for a DIYer, with a car in its final few years in ownership, I so far just buy aftermarket joining sleeves that are the right size, and harvest the clamps, which are probably as good/bad as the genuine ones, the sleeves are poor quality so they get kept - goodness knows what!
My 2011 Audi S4 was bought slightly used but with what was described as a Sports exhaust from its original selling Audi dealership - that translated into being a Milltek SS system, which is okay as it will last a long time, but like most SS clamps, Milltek use steel bolts, and they look like they are getting very ropey, so I'll buy an expensive set of clamps from Milltek to avoid suffering any bolt failure or MOT advisory. Mikalon Supra Heavy Duty W2 are a lot cheaper, but they do tend to use a size down bolts, so will not be so strong when comparing with what Milltek supplied.
 
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