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Hello there
Really hope you can help
I am trying to remove the pistons to change the oil seals as my VW Fox 1.2 2011 is drinking oil as mad. I am not removing the engine and working on it when it is still attached to gearbox and the clutch.
I have removed the head, no problem but I am really struggling to get the bottom/ lower block off to get to the pistons.
I have taken all the bolts our but the lower block is solid and won't move on one side regardless how much tapping I do.

So firstly can the lower block be removed while engine still attached to clutch and everything else?
Secondly what could it be stopping it from dropping?

Thank you in advance
 
Do you know that although you can buy rings, you cannot buy rod bearings or their one time only bolts? The bottom end of the BNM is considered unrebuildable.
 
My car VW Fox 1.2 2011 is only done 45000 miles and the rods and rods bearings and pistons and cylinder bores looking good and I don’t want to replace or touch any of them. I only want to replace the piston rings, oil seal and recon the head.
I don’t understand why is the bottom block cannot be put back on when it was carefully removed and why can’t the rod bolts can be used again?
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Really hope you can help
I am trying to remove the pistons to change the oil seals as my VW Fox 1.2 2011 is drinking oil as mad. I am not removing the engine and working on it when it is still attached to gearbox and the clutch.
I have removed the head, no problem but I am really struggling to get the bottom/ lower block off to get to the pistons.
I have taken all the bolts our but the lower block is solid and won't move on one side regardless how much tapping I do.

So firstly can the lower block be removed while engine still attached to clutch and everything else?
Secondly what could it be stopping it from dropping?

Thank you in advance
you can't separate it properly without taking the whole engine out, firstly the bolts holding the gearbox to the engine are bolted to the bottom half of the block, second the two halves of the block hold the crankshaft in place and you will not be able to realign it properly, thirdly the torsion created by the weight of the flywheel and clutch is enough to help distort the block. THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS WITH THESE ENGINES (nearly every car manual will tell you that removing pistons is an engine out job)! if you hope to have any chance of rescuing it start by inserting the bigger bolts back in to the block just enough to hold the the two halves together, then remove the engine and pray. but as you are going to have to take it out there is no harm in checking it once out, First get the flywheel and clutch off, check no of the main shell bearings have moved, then gently retighten all the bolts, if the crank turns and sticks in any one point I'm sorry but that is game over, if you get lucky go back and READ EVERYTHING and make sure you understand it, if you don't ask me. Unfortunately due to the way you appear to have gone about dismantling there is a very good chance it will be warped and on this occasion and it probably would not be one i would consider rebuilding i am regretfully going to have to agree with Crasher. (that hurts )!😂
 
Thank you very much for your reply
I have now taken the engine out and removed the lower block and pistons.
I am really struggling to understand, why would the bottom block get distorted? It is a solid peace and looks ok to me ? Please let me know how do I check if it’s distorted?
 
As long as you do not release the main bearing bolts it will not twist. When built at the factory they are held in a jig to optimise the alignment for the least possible friction on the crank and then the main caps are torqued. If they are in good condition you can reuse the rod bearings but I don't know how to obtain new ones, the con rod bolts are one time only Torque To Yield and again, I don't know where you can buy replacements.
 
Ok thanks
I am also considering replacing the entire engine. My car is VW Fox 2011 with 47K and I was offered a VW Polo engine 1.2 2006 with 49K on it. Are these the same engines and would the Millege be read from the replaced engine ?
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
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Thank you very much for your reply
I have now taken the engine out and removed the lower block and pistons.
I am really struggling to understand, why would the bottom block get distorted? It is a solid peace and looks ok to me ? Please let me know how do I check if it's distorted?
put it all back together carefully and see if it turns by hand without sticking anywhere, if it does its scrap. make sure you line up the punch marks on the crank and balance shaft otherwise it will jam, tighten the bolts in a diagonal pattern similar to a head gasket pattern. also the blocks may look solid but in fact are very delicate, more so than a cylinder head as there is a lot more space and a lot less metal to maintain ridgety. if you read manuals they always tell you to tighten and undo head bolts in a specific way to avoid distortion, same applies with these delicate little blocks, a couple of thou makes a big difference. it will lead to excessive wear or total failure. A point worth noting is there are no torque settings for the bottom end, VW have never released them and never will it is purely guess work and experience.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
Ok thanks
I am also considering replacing the entire engine. My car is VW Fox 2011 with 47K and I was offered a VW Polo engine 1.2 2006 with 49K on it. Are these the same engines and would the Millege be read from the replaced engine ?
there were several variations, 6 valve and 12 valve and also different engine models. so unless its the same type there is the possibility that hoses cables and wiring connections will not match not to mention the ECU might not get the correct readings from the sensors if they are different.
 
Hello there.

First of all thank you for documenting your process of rebuilding these engines.

I'd like to ask you a few questions about it though. I've already managed to disassemble the entire engine following your directions. Got the engine rebored and honed. got new pistons, rings and bearings. However I was unable to source new bolts. I'm guessing there is no other choice but to refit the old ones. Could you please tell me what torque specs I should use for each type of bolt? And should I use threadlock to secure the bolts in?

On the other hand, what kind of silicone should I use between the two halves of the block? I've been told standard heat resistant silicone should work. What do you think? Also, how thick should this layer of silicon be applied. I'm afraid of putting to much and therefor distort the bearing clearances.

Thanks in advance for your help. Keep safe!
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
Hello there.

First of all thank you for documenting your process of rebuilding these engines.

I'd like to ask you a few questions about it though. I've already managed to disassemble the entire engine following your directions. Got the engine rebored and honed. got new pistons, rings and bearings. However I was unable to source new bolts. I'm guessing there is no other choice but to refit the old ones. Could you please tell me what torque specs I should use for each type of bolt? And should I use threadlock to secure the bolts in?

On the other hand, what kind of silicone should I use between the two halves of the block? I've been told standard heat resistant silicone should work. What do you think? Also, how thick should this layer of silicon be applied. I'm afraid of putting to much and therefor distort the bearing clearances.

Thanks in advance for your help. Keep safe!
hi
unfortunately there are no torque settings available, all done through feel i started at 10nm and worked progressively up 10nm at a time. i think the main bearing caps i finished at about 40 to 45nm and the outer (smaller bolts) i stopped at 30nm working in a diagonal pattern similar to cylinder head. Originally i just used normal silicone sealant but on subsequent engines i use stag seal (thiner layer and if used following instructions no problem so far). As for the bolts being replaced i did not know at the time and just reused the originals, a very small amount of thread lock is not going to hurt (especially as when you get bolts in a kit for VW the end is often got it on in dried form). at the risk of repeating myself once pistons are in and only just in the bore, then lay in the crankshaft, making sure that is aligned with the balance shaft (pin punched marks are on the gears, get it in the wrong place and it will jam the balance shaft against the piston). set the crank so that all three journals are at the same depth, then gently pull through the pistons in turn and attach the end caps (star with number 2 piston first then 1 and three, this is to try and prevent any distortion. again there are no torque settings for these so work up in steps of no more than 10nm, again it probably won't want any thing more than about 30 - 35nm. If you go back through the thread to my post in April there is a lot more information and some of it is very important.
Good Luck
 
Hi there.
I have some good news and some bad news.
First of all I've managed to reassemble everything. The engine started really nicely. I instantly started hearing some sort of knocking. Initially I thought the valve lifters were not completely full of oil, which was partially true. It slowly faded away but a very distinct sound still remained. After running the engine for about 10 minutes at idle it was still present and the oil pressure light came on. Measured the oil pressure and it was about 1 bar at 2000 rpm. What are the possible causes? And are the two problems related?

Thanks in advance.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
oil pressure should be a minimum of 2 bar at 2000rpm, unfortunately you will have to dismantle to find the exact cause of the problem, possibilities are many.
oil pump not servicable
sprocket not tightened or sprockets on wrong way round
oil passage blocked
oil pressure relief valve failed
worn or damaged bearings
oil pick up pipe incorrectly fitted or not sealed correctly
crankshaft bearings / corned bearings and thrust bearings incorrectly installed
drain the oil into a CLEAN container then pour it slowly through a piece of cloth (this acts as a filter), what you are looking for is fine pieces of metal. Should any be present there is a high possibility that the bearings have failed due to lack of lubrication or incorrect fitting.
Bear in mind that VW state that this engine block is classed as not a serviceable component so no rebuild is ever guaranteed to be successful.
 
Thanks a lot.
I located the clicking/ knocking sound to somewhere along the valvetrain. I started slowly revving the engine but the sound became worse and worse. In the end I took it apart yesterday only to find out that one of the rocker arms fell off and got jammed. Thankfully it didn't do any major damage and this also fixed the oil pressure issue. I had well over 2.5 bar at about 1800 rpm. Weirdly, at idle it was close to 0. Is this normal?

I'm grateful that awesome people like you still exist!
 
As you were warned, these engines are not rebuildable.
 
I bought a gauge that's a lot more precise and therefore could get a more accurate reading. Turns out oil pressure with a fully warmed up engine is 0.8 bar at idle and about 1.8 at 2000 rpm. I understand that it is below minimum but I'm hoping it won't cause any problems in the future.
 
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